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January 30, 2007


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Wow. Well written. I ran across that blog the other day as well. It would be cool for people who have had [that church] change their lives tell their stories as well.
Thanks for the thoughts.

[edited by lu]


Thanks, man.

Yeah, your idea sounds good. Problem is, from what I've seen happen over there, who ever left that kind of comment would be immediately attacked by the main commentors, who seem bent on keeping the thing focused on the negative. Sad, but true. It'd be nice, though...


I'm sorry but the comment above is absurd. Keeping on the negative. The truth is that the bloggers on [the site] are educated and wise christian men and women. Those who blog from [the church] have not had the teaching and disciplesip as the [website] members. There not better, just older and wiser and maybe a little more artistic--:-)--Jake


Thanks for the comment, Jake. You proved my point perfectly.


Your blog was quite refreshing to read. It is so very important to forgive, not just to say it but to live it on a daily basis. I think your line, "Yikes! No wonder so many reject the very idea of becoming a follower of Jesus. We eat our own." is very insightful. It's true! With so much back bighting between Christians why would any unbeliever want to become a Christ follower if that's what they have to look forward to? What happened to love? What happened to turn the other cheek? What happened to walk the extra mile? Above everything else as followers of Christ we are to love God first then love others over ourselves. After reading the many posts against this church as well as additional blogs and links from those who are posting, it's hard to find love in what they write.


Thank you, Lydia. It's good to hear your insight. I'm glad you stopped in and took a moment to comment.


jake, Thanks for your comment. One of the stinky problems with electronic media is you cannot hear the tone of my voice, or see the tears in my eyes as I write. I wept as I wrote this post nearly a month ago, and still weep over the whole situation today. I do have deep compassion for you and everyone involved. The whole thing grieves me deeply, and I have great empathy for you in your pain.

I understand and appreciate your desire to make your position known. However, I have decided not to publish your comment, for several reasons:

1. Your comment specifically mentions the name of the church involved and one of the websites involved, and I do not want those names connected together here. While I have on one occasion mentioned the name of two individuals involved, I have made a deliberate effort to not mention the parties involved, their websites, and the church in a way that would connect them all together, and thus bring more attention and publicity to the specifics of the situation. To that end, and you may have noticed this already, I have deleted your leader's name (along with the name of another) from the two posts where it appeared, one from 2 years ago and another from two weeks ago. That was a long and involved way to say that I do not want all those names put together in the same context here. I realize that many already know all the names and websites involved, however, there are many who don't and I won't let this be the first place they discover it.

Actually, your comment helped me realize los had named the church, so I edited his comment as well. Thank you. And I apologize to everyone for leaving it up so long. I just didn't notice it. Doh.

2. I no longer belong to the church involved, because I no longer live in the state. So the questions you ask me regarding my church are not relevant to this post, though they are good questions to reflect upon.

3. Finally, and most important of all, I won't be pulled into your fight with the church or the pastor, nor will I allow you to use this post as a another battleground in that fight. I'm not interested in a debate with you on this issue. You will not change my mind about it, and I seriously doubt I could change yours. You certainly have every right to say whatever you wish on your websites. But this is my blog, and I have the right to determine what it will and will not be about and to steer the conversation in the direction of my choosing. I hope you can respect that.

jake, I hope you are still reading. :) Not posting your comment is in no way meant as a slam or attack on you or your co-sufferers, nor is anything I said here. I hope you can believe that. My heart goes out to you, and especially to your leader in all this. I once respected him deeply and I still love him greatly. I just completely disagree with how you all are going about making your pain and your need for resolution known.

And by the way, your comments about my age and lack of discipleship and/or education did not offend me, so don't worry there. I actually find them funny because I think if you actually knew my age, and my background, you would realize I am probably older than you think, and have had at least as much training as you. But ultimately, none of that really matters.

In the end, it's not a person's age, or the amount of training or education they've had, but how they apply what they have learned and how intimately they abide in Jesus that determines their wisdom and maturity. I have known people who've been followers of Jesus less than a year who are far more mature and far wiser than people who've been Christians 20, 40, even 60 years as well as seminary graduates and ministry veterans with much more training and education than the new follower. Besides, I kinda like still being thought of as a "young'un"! ;)

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